Rawalakot Clashes: JAAC Leader Umar Nazeer Denies Armed Mobs, Demands Neutral Probe After Fatal Attacks

Are you looking to hold negotiations? Yes, absolutely, because they had previously signed an agreement with us. After that, they went back on their word and breached the agreement, on October 4, 2025. "Facilitators, we are your death."

Does anyone ever negotiate with death? Look, let me be clear with you that certain things happen, Yes, this is indeed our slogan. We chant this slogan, and people chant it along with us: "Listen facilitators, we are your death," "Listen rulers, we are your death." Look, death certainly does not...

Even today, what we are saying is that we... Tell me, regarding the constitution and law of Azad Kashmir, do you accept it, and have you been abiding by it and wish to do so? Look, we are not rebels against the constitution and the law at all, and our earlier 38-point charter of demands, in that, we certainly did not act in defiance of the law, nor did we speak against it or talk about overthrowing the system; rather, we sought reforms...

We are neither rebels against the state, nor do we want to rebel against it. The state is... Do you also consider the security forces personnel as martyrs, and do you regret that what is happening on both sides is wrong? Certainly, we believe that on humanitarian grounds, as human beings, we believe that whenever security forces personnel die, there is definitely grief.

We grieve because they are merely doing their jobs, and these senior officers are using them as cannon fodder... Do you want a revolution in Azad Kashmir, a state where there are no trains, no railway tracks, no airplanes, no airports, no passports, no currency, and no forces of its own? Could you define this revolution for me? Revolution—everyone, people of different ideologies, interpret it in their own way.

Revolution fundamentally, even by its literal meaning, signifies change. So I believe that our state of Jammu and Kashmir, and especially the Pakistani... Now tell me, Umar Nazeer Sahib, the forces say there are armed groups on that side, while you say that is not the case; your stance is on record. Is there a third force, referred to as mujahideen, who possess weapons, and are those people present, and the gunfire coming from them which you disown, has that caused all this disorder?

Is there such a third group? Look, as far as our presence and the volunteers standing at the front are concerned, those volunteers are not armed, nor do they wear masks. They stand there daily at the front as people come and go, where a barrier is set up near the sit-in... Okay, you also saw his gun, it even had a sticker on it, they were not mujahideen, they were security forces personnel, you caught them, hosted them, interviewed them, and did they admit who they were?

Yes, they completely admitted it, and you can see all of that in the interview. Whom did you hand these people over to then? To Sardar Amin Sahib, who is a political figure and businessman here... You gave a very good suggestion; you say restore the internet, send an independent commission, let journalists come, including those from Pakistan, and they will see for themselves whether there are armed mobs here, or whether you have weapons.

If there are, who are those people, let them decide for themselves, and let the commission issue a report—is that right? Yes, that is exactly the point. To resolve all these issues, if one has to reach the assembly and become part of the political system, for example, the upcoming elections for the seven seats, will you move in that direction? Look, we had raised this demand earlier as well, even before June 5, that flaws exist in the democratic process here.

Despite that, we believe that for the state structure, its... You acknowledge Pakistan as well, you accept the state of Pakistan, and you accept the state and constitution of Azad Kashmir. You have no connection with people who are anti-Pakistan or anything of that sort. Look, we are absolutely not against the Pakistani state, nor are we against Pakistani institutions, nor are we against any personality in Pakistan.

Our dispute is purely regarding our demands and our rights, and the Pakistani people are our allies; their grief and pain are aligned with ours... It has been five months since you staged your sit-in, winter has also set in, and you have faced immense hardships, spending a long time here in the longest sit-in, one unprecedented in its kind. So will you still continue to sit here like this?

Look, as long as there is life in our bodies, as long as we have the strength, one thing is crystal clear: under no circumstances Even today, today we also... This is exactly what I wanted to ask you: Maulana Fazlur Rehman, Hafiz Naeem ur Rehman, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, and others, along with local leaders including Maulana Saeed Yousuf, all made efforts, stepped forward, and then all pulled back.

What do you see as the reason behind their stepping back? The reason is very clear and straightforward. They absolutely do not want to expose the false and fabricated narrative under which they carried out aggression and terror here; to cover up this crime of theirs, they... [Music] You are watching Gorakh Dhanda; this is Abrar Qureshi speaking to you.

The Joint Awami Action Committee and the people of Azad Kashmir, who for their fundamental human rights have been protesting for months and staging sit-ins. Today, an attack took place there, resulting in the martyrdom of several young men, while countless others were injured. What is the latest situation? Why could negotiations not take place?

And where do the people stand on this? What do they want? How can this issue be resolved? Two days ago, the Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir, Iftikhar Gilani, visited this very city of Rawalakot.

There, he held a meeting. Following that, this action took place today, resulting in a house being set on fire and young men being martyred. First, we will ask Umar Nazeer Kashmiri what the current situation in Rawalakot is like. Umar Nazeer Sahib, peace be upon you!

And peace be upon you! How many people were martyred, how did this whole event unfold today, and what is the situation over there? In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. First of all, thank you, Abrar Sahib, for serving as a voice to convey our concerns to the general public and the authorities, and for fulfilling your journalistic responsibilities admirably.

Fundamentally, you all know that on June 5, when we were attacked to crush this peaceful movement of ours, a terror attack was launched, and today happens to be November 5, marking the completion of five months for us. And in that regard, I would like to submit to you that because our sit-ins are continuing here—peaceful sit-ins are taking place here— four of our sit-ins are currently ongoing in the surroundings of Rawalakot for the past five months.

Here, I believe that prior to this as well— just to give a little background, as you mentioned just now— crackdowns and attacks like this had been carried out against us previously as well; when we advanced the long march on July 27, we were attacked then as well. Today's event happened because two or three days ago, the Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir arrived here and held a meeting, sitting down with the Rangers, FC, police, and some of his own party members, and after holding this meeting with the administration and law enforcement forces, after that, I believe what was behind the scenes has now come to light: it was an operational plan which they had to finalize; he came here, gave authorization for it, finalized it, and went back, and two days later, all of this was carried out.

Today, because since yesterday—as we are located on the hills surrounding Rawalakot, everything inside Rawalakot is visible from there, including the movement of the forces— so since yesterday, there was a lot of intense activity in the city, and widespread movement across the city, with thousands of troops and hundreds of their vehicles moving through various areas of the city; and the day before yesterday an incident occurred, and since it is connected to this, I will mention it: a vehicle belonging to the agencies of the establishment came here, it arrived at our sit-in at the bus terminal, and there were three intelligence personnel inside it.

And there they made an excuse that we—because ahead of it, there is a dumping point designated for throwing waste, which is slightly ahead of our sit-in, so an excuse was made using a pickup truck that had three or four kilograms of waste kept in the back, claiming they were going ahead to dump this waste, so as it happened, when they were questioned because they were passing near our sit-in— from there... they were passing by, appeared suspicious, and when asked, they did not show their identity, and instead, they pulled out a gun and pointed it forward, so our volunteers there stopped them, and all the participants of the sit-in gathered around.

And they questioned them, and during interrogation it was revealed that they belonged to Pakistani intelligence, and what purpose had they come here for? These matters are all interconnected. And then they made an excuse, and we contacted them ourselves and let them go. So in this whole situation, I believe that such actions are certainly meant to crack down on our peaceful sit-ins that have been going on for the past five months, and dismantle the sit-ins, because peacefully, day by day, among the people, the mothers, sisters, women, the general public...

First they opened fire, firing with advanced weapons, and after that, after the Fajr prayer, they launched drone attacks, resulting in the martyrdom of three of our young men at Farooq-e-Azam Chowk: Atif, Adil, and Ehtesham. These three young men belong to Rawalakot, Barmang, Chamba Naal. Their homes are just a few minutes' distance from our Dharek sit-in. In the morning, when their movement began there and their attacks started, announcements were made in our various mosques that an attack had been launched by the forces.

Hearing these announcements, these three young men arrived there together, and at Farooq-e-Azam Chowk, ahead where our checkpoint is set up— because beyond that point, the forces are present inside the city— this checkpoint is right next to Farooq-e-Azam Chowk. They came to this checkpoint, were standing there, and a drone attack was carried out on them, in which seven or eight other people with them were injured on the spot, and these three were martyred there.

Similarly, at the bus terminal area, they attacked inside the village, Matyal Mara village, and dropped drones there, and they dropped a drone inside a house, which caught fire and was reduced to ashes, and fortunately, the house was locked, and no families were present inside. However, the people who were there, the people in the sit-in, since they had no weapons or anything, as soon as they were resting there and the forces arrived, they went into the adjoining Matyal Mara village to save themselves; as they headed toward the village, they carried out an airstrike and opened intense gunfire with modern weapons, as a result of which a woman was injured there, and six other people were also critically wounded.

This is the entire situation, and until now, at both of these locations, right now it is almost evening prayer time, and repeated attacks are still going on against our two sit-ins; around Asr prayer time, three more injured arrived at our medical camp, they too were targeted by a drone attack near that sit-in, specifically where our sit-in is at Farooq-e-Azam Chowk, in the space between Chinar Chowk and Farooq-e-Azam Chowk, along the pedestrian pathway, meaning the drone was dropped on that side of the sit-in as they were walking on foot, attacking them...

You have given full details; I will ask brief questions and would like brief answers. These attacks today took place in the space between the sit-in sites, they were not carried out directly on the protesters sitting at Farooq-e-Azam Chowk, is that correct? Well look, all of our people who were injured were right there; the thing is, not everyone stays seated in one spot, especially since it was morning time— someone is having breakfast, people are dispersed, and once a program begins, everyone sits down together.

So they were scattered, chatting here and there, warming themselves by fires; they were right there, and it was indeed sit-in participants who were attacked. At the bus terminal, where three young men were martyred—you named two of them— were the people present at the bus terminal armed? Look, it did not happen at the bus terminal; the martyrdoms occurred at Farooq-e-Azam Chowk.

At the bus terminal, people were only injured; both attacks were carried out simultaneously. And look, there were no armed people at all; if there had been armed people, then they—because look, let me briefly share a bit of background before this: on June 9, when our convoys set out from Mirpur, sit-ins were staged here on June 10; on June 11, they came and attacked the Dharek sit-in, similarly, on June 14, they also attacked the bus terminal sit-in, and on June 14, we suffered martyrdoms there too, and on June 14, they attacked the Dharek sit-in as well; whenever there have been martyrdoms or people injured here, it was because they attacked.

The narrative being spun about armed people is utterly false; there are no armed people present, nothing of the sort. And I believe that if that were the case, there would have been some response from this side too, and that would have been highlighted. However, just as they carried out an operation the day before yesterday, placing their own armed men in plainclothes, having them fire to build a false narrative, no such people are present near our sit-in, nor do we have any connection to them; they are their own men, an example being the three intelligence personnel I mentioned, who belonged to the ISI, had an ISI sticker on their gun, and their gun was seized, and all three were present in plainclothes the day before yesterday at the bus terminal sit-in.

When the ministers came to Rawalakot two days ago, after which you say the decision was made and today's crackdown happened, after that meeting, was any message or warning sent by the state to the Action Committee leaders saying they would do this? No, none at all; neither before that nor afterward. On the media, the Prime Minister and President issue various statements claiming they want negotiations, as does the Speaker—all three of them— claiming they are negotiating or want to negotiate, but practically no dialogue committee was formed, no delegation was sent, and no negotiation process was initiated; no such message was sent, nothing of the sort...

Do you want to hold negotiations? Yes, absolutely, because they signed an agreement with us previously, after which they breached their promise and violated the accord on October 4, 2025, and we certainly have sound arguments regarding our basic rights; engaging with reason is our position, we are ready at the table... You received no warning from the government, nothing happened, you want to negotiate and wanted to before.

Tell me, regarding the constitution and law of Azad Kashmir, do you accept it, have you been abiding by it, and do you wish to abide by it? Look, we are completely—we are by no means rebels against the constitution and the law, and in our previous 38-point charter of demands, we never took a rebellious stance against the law or opposed it, nor did we talk about overthrowing this system; rather, we spoke of reforms, and all our demands were focused on striving for reforms; we are absolutely not rebels against the state, nor do we wish to become rebels against the state.

When the state treats us like a stepmother, when it registers baseless cases against us, and when things are not done on merit, then we will certainly raise our voice against such actions, yet despite raising our voice, we absolutely respect the state's constitution and law... You are not rebels against the constitution and law, which is why you negotiate with the state. Yes. Then, you see, everyone is human, whether they belong to the security forces or to our people.

Whether it is you or anyone else. Your people were martyred today, over a hundred people have been martyred in total, and members of the forces were also killed; do you consider the forces' personnel martyrs too, and do you feel regret that what is happening on both sides is wrong? Look, if you consider those security forces as martyrs, then you would have to remove the tragedy of Karbala from the history books, because I say this with great grief and pain: at Karbala, all those people were believers who recited the Kalima; when the oppressor and the oppressed face each other, religion ceases to matter, so certainly, out of humanity and as human beings, we believe that regarding all the security personnel, there is certainly sorrow over their deaths, because they are just doing jobs, and these officers use them as cannon fodder; poor souls sent here from various corners of Pakistan and used as fodder, so whenever any human being dies, we certainly feel sorrow and regret, and please understand this clearly: those killed on their side were killed by their own people, not by us; there is plenty of evidence for this; on June 7, 2026, when our protest was underway in front of the Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Hospital—I was injured and not present there— they killed police personnel and their own men with their own gunfire, over there...

Since there were three types of forces—SHP, Rangers, and others— which had separate groups positioned front and back, and many of them opened fire from behind. Similarly, inside the hospital, many people were injured, and among the wounded were our people as well as their people, members of their security forces. They shot them there too just to craft their narrative, and furthermore, the incident that happened on June 5 happened to me directly.

Because I myself was a victim of it, and our other companion alongside me was martyred. And later, I also saw the FIR. And a narrative was spun claiming that our passing convoy was the one that attacked first. Even though we only had eight to ten vehicles, and we were simply heading back to Rawalpindi after concluding our event, we possessed no weapons at all, nor did we launch any attack.

Yet the narrative was manufactured that the attack came from our side. We absolutely had no weapons; we believe strictly in peaceful political struggle. Despite disagreements, we adhere to democratic norms and political methods, which represent our peaceful struggle; prior to last June 5, show me even a single violent incident, whereas now, with what just happened, everything escalated only after guns were brought into play.

Even now, we have not taken up arms to counter their weapons. If we had decided to respond to guns with guns, then back on July 27 during the long march, they would have already fled the entire city. Despite that, we held ourselves back at that location, because we did not want any bloodshed or confrontation. Even after suffering casualties, we chose not to escalate into clashes.

So the use of weapons is certainly not coming from our side; they are the ones firing them, although it is inevitable that when bullets are fired at us, if we have a stick or a stone in hand, we will definitely use it for our own safety and self-defense. Yes, please clarify, Nazir Sahib, the security forces claim armed gangs are on your side. You say that is not true; your stance is now on the record.

Is there any third party referred to as Mujahideen, who are equipped with arms, and those individuals are present on site and doing the firing which you publicly disown, thereby triggering all this disorder? Does such a third group actually exist? Look, as far as our reach and physical presence extend, and as far as our volunteers positioned in front are concerned, none of those volunteers carry any arms, nor do any of them wear masks or coverings.

They come, go, and stand right at the frontline every single day. There is a barrier placed alongside the sit-in, and they remain stationed there. It is completely out of the question that any armed individuals could be operating within our perimeter or under our control, and regarding this recurring accusation about armed men, there is one thing I would like to tell you directly: a very transparent and definitive solution is readily available.

First, someone must explain to us why internet access was suspended here. Regarding all the incidents that have occurred since June 5, if—look, just the day before yesterday an incident occurred, where an individual was holding a gun, there were three individuals in total. If that same person had fired a shot from our location and slipped away, had he not been apprehended on the spot, what narrative would have been spun?

It would have been alleged that the gunfire originated from the sit-in! If such paid operatives working for them do exist, they are certainly not inside our perimeter, nor is it the case that firing originates from our crowd, especially since we remain physically present at the sit-in; whenever gunfire erupts, it is initiated from their side, and with heavy military-grade weapons, as anyone can tell from the distinct sound of the bursts...

So the armed person you caught, do you have video evidence of him? Yes, absolutely, the video recording is available. In a short while, God willing, the recorded interviews of all three of them will be made public. Yesterday evening, to begin with, we treated them as our guests.

We did not subject them to any humiliation or mistreatment, because we recognize that whether someone is a Subedar, a Havaldar, or an ordinary soldier, he is just a working man. The high-ranking officers sitting at the top are merely using them; the poor man is innocent. With that perspective in mind, we sheltered them as guests. Yesterday we questioned them on record once more, and taking the initiative ourselves, we reached out to local mediators present here, the various delegations that have been visiting and attempting to broker talks, and we handed them over safely to those intermediaries.

God willing, the video will be uploaded to our social media page shortly, and you can review all of it. And on his rifle—most importantly, an ISI sticker was affixed to his weapon. You saw his rifle, it had that sticker on it, they were not Mujahideen, they were state security personnel, you apprehended them, treated them as guests, interviewed them, and they openly confessed their true identities.

Yes, they fully admitted it; that recorded confession will be uploaded shortly for everyone to see. To whom did you hand these individuals over, then? They were handed over to Sardar Amin Sahib, who is a political figure here, a businessman and political activist who operates between Rawalpindi and Islamabad, and who has previously acted as a neutral mediator working to facilitate dialogue; we summoned him ourselves, handed them into his custody, and he returned them safely.

And secondly, these fabricated stories being spread claiming there are Mujahideen or Taliban stationed there—a clear remedy exists for that: I would like to suggest that the international press should be granted unrestricted access here. We give our full assurance regarding their physical security, there will be no issue whatsoever, because our entire protest is open and transparent; we have no fear, nor do we have anything to hide in that regard.

Let them come and inspect every single corner. Where should they visit? Throughout Rawalpindi city and right here as well. You come too, Pakistani journalists should also come and observe the ground realities firsthand to verify whether any militant is actually present here.

If anyone is found, let it be known who they are; everything will be laid bare. Furthermore, had the internet not been deliberately shut down, then regarding every development since June 5, including all the lives lost here or any casualties on the security forces' side, had all of this been streamed live through accessible social media with regular internet connectivity, the entire world would have witnessed the truth.

No one—neither you nor the public—would have had to rely on claims, because when things are broadcast live, nothing can be suppressed. So another necessary step, I believe, is that foreign correspondents along with the Pakistani media must arrive and verify the ground realities themselves, to distinguish truth from falsehood. And another point: when various mediation delegations visited us earlier, we placed a clear demand that for all incidents since June 5, an independent commission of inquiry must be constituted.

A body comprising human rights organizations, the United Nations, and global rights monitors, including credible international observers, alongside respected neutral figures from within Pakistan, so that an independent commission can thoroughly investigate all matters from June 5 up to the present day... Yet the moment we raised this formal demand, they flatly refused, stating that this could never be permitted under any circumstance.

That demonstrates that if an impartial commission is formed, many inconvenient facts will be uncovered, facts that will prove deeply embarrassing for them. You have offered a very sound proposal: restore internet connectivity, dispatch an independent commission, allow journalists including Pakistani media to come, let them see for themselves whether armed gangs exist here, whether you are carrying weapons, and if so, who those armed men are, and let them make an objective assessment for the commission to publish—is that correct?

Yes, precisely; that is our exact position. Now turning to the prospect of negotiations: if dialogue is pursued, and we are told that we must surrender unconditionally, or that we are not allowed to present our demands at all. You can later secure bail through the courts. Your issues will be resolved.

So, do you have a framework or plan for how things should proceed if talks resume? Look, my position on this is very clear: for any dialogue, if there is genuine seriousness from the government— which there hasn't been so far. When there is seriousness, they should form their own dialogue committee. And with a committee, once you sit at the table, adjustments are possible.

A middle ground also exists. Our position remains firm; it was there before, and it remains today. I believe that regarding what you said about handling things in the courts... Look, which courts are you talking about?

Tell me that. The courts are certainly part of this system. If the courts perform their duties properly and fulfill the requirements of justice, then certainly—let me give you an example: on June 5, when we were attacked, and during all the incidents that followed, whether in Muzaffarabad or in Mirpur, none of us members of the core committee of the Jammu Kashmir Joint Awami Action Committee were even present there.

On June 7, I was severely injured; I couldn't even speak, yet even at that time an FIR was filed against me alleging that I assaulted a policeman in front of the hospital. The courts will hear that once you appear before them, but didn't the High Court grant bail to three individuals who had been handed lengthy sentences, whether the charges were false or true, whatever the case may be?

Look, which three people are you talking about? Three people did get bail from the High Court recently, right? Look, in that manner, some people were granted bail in our sessions court as well. What they have done with certain people is they have forcibly disappeared them and kept them missing without producing them before the courts, a prominent example being Shaukat Nawaz Mir and other prisoners, where to this day, ever since they were arrested, the authorities still refuse to acknowledge it.

Today was one of his scheduled hearings, and there... the SHO whom the entire world saw, an SHO named Sohail who, right before the whole world, as shown in circulating videos, arrested Shaukat Nawaz, physically holding him by the arm—those videos were seen everywhere. Yet today, under pressure, he went to court and submitted a statement—a sworn affidavit—stating that he did not arrest Shaukat Nawaz.

So when the courts are completely helpless, and repeatedly over the past three to three and a half months, at every hearing scheduled for Shaukat Nawaz, the court finds itself powerless to have the person it considers an accused brought into the courtroom dock. Look, the very SHO who arrested Shaukat Nawaz Mir goes into court and claims, even though video doesn't lie and the camera doesn't lie, he claims, "I never arrested him."

In this manner, they have made many people disappear. Look, if FIRs were registered based on merit, and if the courts dealt with cases strictly on merit, we are not outlaws defying the law; we are completely willing to secure bail through the courts and go through the proper legal procedures. Yet look, they charged them under Section 7 of the Anti-Terrorism Act; what terrorism took place?

They charged them with murder under Section 302; they slapped such severe penal clauses on them just to deny them bail and frame them, just as they treated the PTI inside Pakistan. So in such an environment, when the courts, based on merit, or the police department, fail to register FIRs based on actual merit, people inevitably lose faith in their police and in their state institutions.

While answering this question and giving it careful thought, could you tell me: if resolving all these issues required you to enter the assembly and become part of the political system, for instance, by contesting the elections for the seven seats, would you take that path? Look, we made this demand earlier as well, even before June 5, that the democratic process here has inherent flaws.

Despite that, we believe that for the state framework and its setup, the political practices carried out here certainly need reforms, but as for the democratic process itself, we are by no means opposed to it. For that, we had demanded that regarding elections, the existing shortcomings must be reformed, specifically in terms of delimitation, voter lists, and other related matters; if you fix those, we are completely ready.

Regarding this, I will not say anything definitive right now, but when it comes to being part of democracy and the democratic process, we definitely do not refuse, provided it is conducted properly... Look, on one hand, we were attacked on June 5, our organization was declared unlawful on June 5, we were banned and branded as terrorists, and then on June 7, the election schedule was announced.

So in such a scenario, tell me, how could we possibly become part of this system? If they had not banned us like this, had not attacked us, and had given us the freedom to participate, offering us a genuine choice, then it could have been argued that we didn't want to be part of this democracy. Despite all the flaws and despite our disagreements, we recognize that a democratic process exists here, and we definitely do not refuse to participate in it.

I want to ask a few questions; you are a responsible person, you speak very well, you have good understanding and all that. The question is based on a real and literal slogan: "Facilitators, we are your death." Does anyone ever negotiate with death? Look, let me explain clearly that certain things exist— yes, this is indeed our slogan.

We chant it, our comrades chant it too: "Listen, facilitators, we are your death! Listen, rulers, we are your death!" Look, when we say "death," even today what we mean— even today we spoke about our three companions who were martyred, and those martyred before them, saying we will avenge their martyrdom. Now, how we will take revenge and how we represent their death requires a bit of understanding.

We absolutely do not wish to avenge murder with murder, nor do we have any such intention, nor is that our mindset, nor has anything of that sort ever happened on our part, nor will it happen in the future. Because we believe that in a political struggle, in a peaceful struggle, there are ups and downs, A person presents their stance, though it is not guaranteed that their stance will prevail, but such efforts awaken consciousness among the general public, ideas spread, and awareness grows among the people.

So regarding this slogan, "Facilitators, we are your death," why do we say that we are their death? We say this because for the past three-quarters of a century, the oppression and injustice we have endured, has awakened a consciousness among the people, clear proof of which you saw when they held elections and witnessed what the actual voter turnout really was. People were completely indifferent, whereas in the past there used to be long queues.

Now the very people who were their voters, their supporters, members of their parties, showed complete disinterest in this election, and bogus votes were cast in several places. So all of this represents a vote of no confidence against this system, against this ruling elite, and that is what spells their death. This absolutely does not mean that we intend to kill them physically.

And likewise for the facilitators, whoever they may be, who kept toying with the public, who kept deceiving and defrauding the people. Now the time has come when people have awakened intellectually and consciously, and that is their death; we are definitely not talking about killing anyone... Taking advantage of your presence, I would like to ask a couple of questions, and then I will take your leave.

You explained very well about the overall situation. A cypher was leaked regarding certain people, specifically the UKPNP. In it, Sardar Shaukat Ali Kashmiri was named, along with the name of his party. That same Sardar Shaukat Ali Kashmiri is someone who, over in the UK, in Britain, supports your Action Committee, and I have personally interviewed him as well.

He also attends various events. So regarding this conflict of interest, this contradiction, do you actually endorse all these people? Look, even earlier when this cypher drama was staged, we clarified our position back then as well. First of all, we have no connection with any Pakistani intelligence agency, nor with any Indian agency, nor with any of their officials, nor with any of their agents; we have absolutely no link.

Look, they investigated many things practically in the background, checking the profile of every single one of our core committee members and checking our backgrounds, checking our bank accounts, checking our assets; they have already investigated all these things beforehand. When they had no practical proof whatsoever, they resorted to aggression, they resorted to violence, they resorted to bans, terrorism charges, and all sorts of things; Schedule 4—they did all of that.

We absolutely have nothing to do with UKPNP, whatever it is, in this regard, because we have already publicly announced our disassociation from this organization. As for what you mentioned about him attending programs in the UK or elsewhere in foreign countries, look, officially, in any foreign country, the Jammu Kashmir Joint Awami Action Committee has no official membership, neither is there any membership, nor does any committee exist there like the one we have here in Azad Jammu and Kashmir.

People invite others there, and all kinds of people attend, but officially we have no ties to any such faction, or any group that has connections with India; the Jammu Kashmir Joint Awami Action Committee never had any link with them, nor... You acknowledge Pakistan, you accept the state of Pakistan, and you accept the state and constitution of Azad Kashmir. You have no connection with those who are anti-Pakistan or anything of that sort.

Look, we are definitely not against the Pakistani state, nor are we against Pakistani institutions, nor are we against any individual in Pakistan. Our disagreement is strictly regarding our demands and our rights, and in fact, the people of Pakistan are our allies; we share their pains and sorrows. It is the government, the institutions, the policymaking bodies, whose policies regarding the future of the state of Jammu and Kashmir we disagree with.

Regarding our rights, those who have become an obstacle to our rights, because the government here is merely their puppet government, the puppet of those in Islamabad, the Pakistani government. In that sense, it is their responsibility, and even under the United Nations it is their obligation to ensure that, for the residents here in Azad Jammu and Kashmir—Pakistan-administered Jammu and Kashmir— they safeguard their rights and their basic fundamental rights; it is their responsibility, and they have committed to this in writing at the United Nations.

In that regard, we certainly have a disagreement and we certainly have a struggle, an intellectual struggle. That too is strictly concerning our own affairs. As for Pakistan, we are absolutely not against any government or any institution, neither did we oppose them before, nor do we oppose them now. If that were the case, then on October 4th, when the representatives of both Pakistani parties—the PML-N leadership and the PPP leadership—came here, they signed an agreement with us.

If our government and their government had personal clashes with us, or if we were against them, we would not have recognized them as stakeholders, and we would never have signed an agreement or sat down with them. Through all this, we are simply demanding our rights; we are asking for clean drinking water, we are asking for an MRI machine. We are asking for basic healthcare and education facilities.

We are asking for ownership of our own resources. The United Nations Charter grants us the right to this. The Constitution of Pakistan grants us this right, as does the Constitution of AJK. We are not committing any crime; it is our legitimate right that this...

Understood. Whether negotiations take place or they do not, you have been staging a sit-in for five months now, through the winter season, you have faced immense hardships and endured a very long time; it is an exceptionally long sit-in, unprecedented of its kind. So will you continue to sit out there like this? Look, as long as there is life in our bodies, as long as we have the strength, one thing is crystal clear: under no circumstances, even today, we reiterated this today, that despite three more of our young men being martyred today and others injured, even after that, we made every effort with the participants of our sit-in, earnestly appealing and urging them to remain peaceful.

Many of our people were advancing, unarmed people were moving forward, and we stopped them, telling them that if we ever advance, we will all advance together, and that nothing should be done out of raw emotion, and the people honored that, agreeing that we must not let go of patience and steadfastness under any circumstances, because we believe in peaceful struggle, and we believe in political and democratic norms; we will absolutely never respond to a bullet with a bullet, we will respond through our peaceful struggle, we will respond through the unity and resolve of the public, so in that sense, we believe that even though this sit-in involves genuine hardships, the freezing cold, the harsh weather, and is a trial, a trial for the entire nation, even so, under no circumstances will we withdraw from it.

Until the very end, until our last breath, God willing, God willing, This sit-in and this protest will continue, As long as there is life in our bodies, this sit-in, this peaceful struggle... "Revolution" is a word that has echoed, Terminology is a different matter altogether. Do you want a revolution in Azad Kashmir? In this state where there are no trains, no tracks, no airplanes, No airports, no passports, no currency, no security forces of our own, So are you going to define revolution to me?

Every person views revolution— People of different ideologies interpret it in their own way. Fundamentally, even the literal meaning of revolution is change, So I believe that within our state of Jammu and Kashmir, especially Pakistani-administered Jammu and Kashmir, A revolution has already taken place to the extent That an awakening has emerged among the people, and in particular, A major revolution is that our women, Our mothers, sisters, boys, and girls, on their own, Because when oppression occurred, they all came out of their homes And began joining the sit-ins; so consciously and intellectually, I believe This very awakening is what is called a revolution.

Our revolution, Simply means that our people should have healthcare facilities, They should have educational facilities, We should have ownership rights over our resources, We should have the right to govern ourselves, We certainly do not mean what people of various ideologies call a bloody revolution, That is absolutely not what we mean. And to some extent, we believe that over the past five months, And through the struggle we waged over the last four years, To a large extent, a revolution has already taken place here; people just lack the eyes to see it.

And undoubtedly, this revolution will keep moving forward, And in our view, this is what revolution is. "This revolution will move forward"—you have given your definition of revolution, People are listening, and I am asking you directly, but Muzaffarabad is open, the Mirpur division is open, The towns of Kotli are open and bustling, while people are staging sit-ins in Rawalakot.

Isn't there a clear difference? Well, listen, that is not at all the case, For the first 75 days after June 5, There was a complete lockdown across the entirety of AJK, And I believe there is oppression there, Because of which, even today, Today, let me give you an example, Students protested in Garhi Dupatta, Jhelum Valley, And videos emerged showing them being arrested and taken away; they were students, They were college students, and the same happened at Muzaffarabad University, Similarly, a few days ago, college students in Muzaffarabad Came to Lal Chowk and protested; police cases were filed against them too, and they were arrested, There is oppression!

Because of this oppression, there is temporary silence among the people, That by no means implies that Mirpur Division and Muzaffarabad Division are indifferent to this movement, Or that they have separated from it or fallen silent. If, For a moment, one accepts the government's narrative, this logic, Then what are the security forces doing there? What are the forces doing in Mirpur, in Kotli, and in Bhimber?

What are the forces doing in Muzaffarabad? If peace has already been established there, Then try withdrawing the forces, Leave the public free, and everything will become clear, So that is not the case at all, nor are we disheartened, We are satisfied with our brothers in Mirpur, And with our brothers in Muzaffarabad, and God willing, A time will come in the days ahead When these people will actively break through this oppression and come forward, God willing.

Right. Throughout this interview, you gave a very good suggestion that a neutral commission should be formed, Comprising journalists and people from different schools of thought, Who should come here once the internet is restored and investigate for themselves, And report whether there are indeed armed groups here as the Action Committee is accused of having; Along with this, Can you, to Field Marshal Asim Munir, To the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the President of Pakistan, the United Nations, and other major human rights bodies, Publicly present these proposals by writing them letters?

Will you request this of them and put these things in writing? Look, prior to this, Before our long march on July 27, we had already Not just Pakistan, but other countries as well, including Turkey, Iran, and Saudi Arabia, Canada, the United States, the USA, and similarly European countries, We wrote letters to their heads of state too; we wrote to the Prime Minister of Pakistan Three times; to the Field Marshal of Pakistan, we Wrote four times; likewise, we wrote to the heads of all institutions and Corps Commanders, And to all Pakistani politicians, Maulana Fazlur Rehman, And similarly, the respected Maulana Naeem-ur-Rehman, As well as Asif Ali Zardari, Bilawal Bhutto, Senator Mushtaq, and to all the heads of various political parties, We wrote letters to all of them.

And God willing, We will once again, Regarding this commission you mentioned, this proposal for a commission was first made By the respected Bilawal Bhutto, We appreciated him and also wrote him a letter, just as we wrote to everyone. But I believe that at some point, all of them Become helpless, so that despite wanting to, They are unable to take a step, they become unable to feel this pain, They are stopped and told that they must not go to Kashmir, nor should they do anything about...

That is what I wanted to ask you: Maulana Fazlur Rehman, Hafiz Naeem-ur-Rehman, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, and others, Along with local figures including Maulana Saeed Yousaf, all made efforts, Stepped forward, and then all of them pulled back. What do you think is the reason for their pulling back? Look, the reason is very clear and blunt: Those who have orchestrated this game here since June 5 Absolutely do not want their false And fake narrative, and the tyranny and terror they unleashed here, To cover up this crime of theirs, they want to crush us; they under no circumstances Want a solution to these matters through dialogue.

Because those people who kept visiting us, Especially Senator Mushtaq who physically came here And was later arrested for this very offense—all these people, some of whom kept sending their representatives to us And engaged in various discussions regarding our preconditions, our demands, And our agreement, after which we showed flexibility on many things, We even adopted middle grounds to steer things toward a resolution, but when they went back, They were stopped and told, "We have to eliminate them, We will not speak to them, there will be no dialogue committee, no talks with them; rather, we will crush them."

So when the state has such an unyielding policy, When institutions have an unyielding state policy, then definitely Politicians cannot play any role in any matter... It is unfortunate. Are all members of the Action Committee's core committee on the same page? And do you listen to them and do they listen to you?

And secondly, Could the Action Committee, at some point, In the interest of the state and its people, Show flexibility to resolve this issue? Well, first of all, in our Jammu Kashmir Joint Awami Action Committee, we have three members from each district. Initially, some members had distanced themselves after the June 5 incident, But regarding our people who have been arrested, or those of us present here right now— around 16 of our members are present here.

All of our decisions are strictly made through mutual consultation. None of us is the head of this committee; there is no president, general secretary, or chairman. Everyone sits on an equal footing, and by consensus, through mutual consultation, decisions are made after discussion, and everyone... There may be some disagreement or difference of opinion, but all collective decisions... ...are respected; there is no issue of that sort.

Regarding the other point you raised, about whether the core committee, in this regard, can resolve this matter by demonstrating flexibility: Look, there is absolutely no obstinacy on our part when it comes to resolving the issue. There was none before, nor is there any now. However, it cannot be that regarding what has happened to us since June 5th, we simply give up our demands in the first place, drop our demands, abandon the charter of demands, and then overlook the incidents that took place against us after June 5th— the baseless cases registered against us, the names placed on the Fourth Schedule, being placed on the ECL and travel ban lists, the advisories and notifications that were issued, our organization being banned, and then the loss of life inflicted on us, along with the damage to property; so in such circumstances, if redress is provided for all these damages of ours, even then, I believe we do not take a hardline stance.

We are not being overly rigid about this. If a middle ground can be reached, we are completely willing to show flexibility— we are ready. We are ready to resolve these matters by sitting down together through political and democratic means; there is absolutely no stubbornness on our part. Umar Nazir Kashmiri Sahib, thank you very much for giving us your time. Thank you very much as well, may God reward you, thank you.